Curse

Typhoon · May 06, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Throw Dirt + Dust Trap + Oath Shot = Rinse and Repeat.

You also can get Whirling Defense, which can give you 75% block for up to 17 seconds. It's kind of like an immunity shield, and most of the time you can cast this stance and then cast a trap while a warrior is trying to hit you. :-)

Don't forget about distracting shot, a very good interrupt. Troll Inguent is cheap to cast and gives a nice +8 health regeneration with enough points.

Akshara · May 06, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Actually, no, it doesn't. However, direct damage smiting prayers do.

Hmm, intriguing. I was under the impression it did. Not wanting to dispute, just get my facts straight as I'm sill learning as well.

The monk profession guide on the site here says the following...

Quote:

Most Smiting skills deal holy damage, which is unaffected by armor class, and deals double damage to undead enemies. Even if your target is a warrior with an extremely high armor level, Smiting skills will still deal full damage to them.

This suggests to me that holy damage does ignore armor... unless I'm misunderstanding what armor class is referring to.

Macel · May 07, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Dunno what you're on about, my 15 ranger can take pretty much anyone on one on one.

Saying "I only do xx dmg" or "I can do xx dmg" doesnt mean much - it varies widely on who you're attacking. Warriors will naturally shrug off melee damage very well. Maybe you should consider saving warriors for last in PVP battle and shooting enemy casters first, you'll like your damage much more against them.

I think if you play other damage dealing classes you'll see bigger numbers but slower cast times and larger mana drainage... Not to mention you'll have even less tankeability than you do with a ranger.

My PVP setup as a 15 ranger/elementalist goes like this: distracting shot, which interrupts spells/abilities and shoots instantly, hunter's shot which bleeds if target is moving (and players move around a lot), the fire damage arrows (the DD one, not AOE DD), earth armor which slows me down a lot but boosts my armor enough to tank melee very well.. That helps against my primary weakness which is warriors, The 10 second 75% evade ability, for additional tankage, troll unguent (of course), charm pet to bring my pet along and res signet.

My team of four won 18 games last night, and I definitely helped make that possible

Striker Shardale · May 07, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

I would recommend Ranger/Monk as well, I am lvl 18 and this guy is a freaking beast. With a Ranger/Monk you can make him/her capable of doing high dmge, high defense, or even being a decent healer. They are very helpful in those spots where you have to run long distances and do not want to die.

Falconer · May 07, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

The problem I think is that the ranger is an 'advanced' class after all the changes it's gone through the past few months. I would NOT recommend a ranger to a new player until they learn the ins and outs of fighting against them. Like someone else said, they're a physical mesmer.

If you're a ranger primary... you really have no choice... expertise + marksmanship all the way. After that you need survival to do exactly that augment your survivability. Yeah you can do healing prayers in it's place... but prepare for energy management problems if you do so. You are an archer, consign yourself to that fact early and you'll save yourself much grief. Expect to spend half to all your points on marks & expertise right now. At low levels use wilderness survival with barely enough marks to use your bow, if you need to use marksmanship skills... stick with hunters shot (your only real 5 energy bow attack spammable pick), and penetrating shot (sparingly... it'll eat up your energy in a hurry). But primarily rely on your survival preps for damage & self-healing at low levels.

As a ranger you really don't have any nuke skills whatsoever. You have a lot of spam damage types. That's right ZERO nukes... they used to have 15 energy power shots with +34 damage which was the closest thing they had... now power shot is one of a bunch of clones stuck at 10 energy and +20 damage.

However, that sad. As it currently stands the ranger is very largely self-contained. Moreso than any other class. It's very hard to keep any class 'pure' and keep it powerfull. And expertise is a large portion of the reason for this... look at your entire skill list.. expertise will reduce the cost of all of it by 50% round up at lvl 12.

A good way to view the ranger in game is that it's largely similar to the Red Mage's in the final fantasy series. A lot of self-buffs and utility. However, not steller in the damage or healing categories.

FYI: I was regularly soloing lvl 24 critters at level 13 with my Ra/Mo.. so it's not a matter of it can't be done. It's just it takes a LOT of work. And you really can't be all you can be until you are level 20. Moreso than any other class... ranger is closest thing in game to the D&D mages... not a lot of power at low levels... but at high levels they start to get scary.

Mouser · May 09, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Falconer,

It sounds like you're using a "pure ranger" build, with little or no skills and attributes invested in Monk. Am I right in that assumption? (I only ask, because that's the direction I've been taking, and haven't had any regrets so far. However, I just went into the Academy today, so I haven't really seen any of the real content. Having said that though, I'm impressed with what a Ranger-only can do.)

-M

kelith · May 10, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akshara

The monk profession guide on the site here says the following...
<snip>

This suggests to me that holy damage does ignore armor... unless I'm misunderstanding what armor class is referring to.

Your not misunderstanding what armor class is, just the info you are qouting.

Holy damage from skills ignores armor.
Holy damage dealt by weapons does not.

Akshara · May 11, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Holy damage from skills ignores armor.
Holy damage dealt by weapons does not.

I appreciate your helping to clear this up, and I don't want to derail this topic, but I'm a little confused by what you're saying.

All of the Smiting Prayers that deal holy damage - except for two - are cast as either a spell, skill, hex, enchantment or signet directly on the foe(s) without a weapon required. The enchantment Judge's Insight and the attack skill Smite are the only ones that add holy damage to a weapon attack.

In the case of Judge's Insight, this adds holy damage on top of the base weapon attack, which itself gets a +20% armor penetration.

Smite adds anywhere from 10 to 68 holy damage to an attack, regardless of what weapon one is carrying.

In both cases, the holy damage itself should still ignore armor class. What I'm hearing you guys say is that in the case of these two spells, the holy damage dealt does not ignore armor class. It just doesn't make any sense. Where are you getting this information?

Hmm... I just re-read my post, and recognized that I didn't explain it very clearly to begin with, which may be part of the confusion.

When I said, "can be used to buff the natural damage of your bow," I wasn't being clear enough. What I was trying to say was that holy damage added on top of a ranger's normal bow attacks can increase the total damage dealt significantly, since holy damage ignores armor class. I didn't mean to imply that the bow's base attack damage itself ignored armor as well.

Is that what you thought I was saying? Or are there bows out there with holy damage as an attribute like some wands and staves have? Because I'm totally confused as to what "holy damage dealt by weapons does not" is referring to in this context. In the case of a Ranger, what holy damage does not come from a skill?

kelith · May 11, 2005, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Since smite is a skill that is doing the damage it will ignore armor. Smite also doesn't add damage to your regular attack, it does it's damage as if it were an attack.

Quote:

In the case of Judge's Insight, this adds holy damage on top of the base weapon attack, which itself gets a +20% armor penetration.

Judge's Insight doesn't add holy damage to the weapon attack, it converts the physical damage to holy damage. This is the reason for the holy damage dealt by weapons don't bypass armor statement and is also why the skill gives 20% armor penetration. The armor penetration would be pointless if the damage itself ignored the armor calculations.

Perhaps the post by Nash in this thread can be of some use.
http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14327

I've got to run to work, but i'll check back later.

Akshara · May 11, 2005, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Thank you, Kelith. That does clear things up quite a bit. I was completely misunderstanding this, as is evidenced by my previous posts.

There's so many little details to learn, I always appreciate it when someone with more experience takes the time to share what they know.

adugabutt · May 11, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

i understand what you're going through. Rangers have been nerfed because they made elementalists stupid. Now, however, they're useful in that they can do a variety of different things.

You'll never be able to out do pure physical damage of other weapons with a bow, but you can put conditions on them. I understand that that's not what you want, and people have gave suggestions improving damage. The bottom line is, it wont be enough. Even if you do 60 damage to other players with skill shots, the rate at which bows fire is atrocious.

But if you're looking to kill tanks, such as warrior monks, physical attacks won't do much good anyway. With the armor they have and the different skills (stance, that one monk skill that gives you health every time you get hit, etc) they are pretty much immune to physical dmg anyway if they know what they're doing. But a mesmer or necro putting degens on them will kill them fast.

A ranger can do that as well. Bleeding, poison, crippling, in addition to whatever degens your second class can give you, will drain those warriors like a leaky faucet.

Btw, I'm sure you already know this, but poison does not "stack" contrary to the previous post somewhere mentioning this.

Spura · May 12, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erod

I understand that in this game, rangers aren't for damage dealing, and it's kind of a bummer. I've always played an archer, and shooting things for 13-30 dmg with a rare xx-27 rare bow is a bummer. I've always known archers be about equivelant to mages, but physical damage (in a sense) slow attacking speed, but high damage.. and they tend to be... like a physical mesmer in this game..

I'm wondering if im missing somthing.. I have 12 in marksman ship and I still hit like a little girl. Im making a provolone (Warrior/Monk) provolone.. as in cheese.. because warrior monks are cheesy.. but I want to do damage.. and I dont like mages.. so warrior seems to be my only choice

I hate the idea of traps.. or pets that's not me. Any tips to enhance my damage with a bow? Before I spend time leveling another character to 20?

I hate legolas and I hate archers in all rpgs I have played. Go figure why.

uigrad · May 12, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I've enjoyed my lv 9 Mo/R so far. Of course, I have a long ways to go.

I've been playing (PvE) with some friends that are a few levels ahead of me. I can stand back, and let them tank and deal damage, while I heal, and lob in arrows, powered by favorable winds. I suppose my combination is perfect if you are with higher level friends, but may not be as useful once I pass them (should happen tonight or tomorrow

I'm really looking forward to exploding arrows or poison.